Episode 13 - World Mental Health Day
Links
https://breathingspace.scot/
https://clearyourhead.scot/
Transcript
Graham Johnston 0:01
Hello, and welcome to episode number 13 of the Scottish Tech Army Podcast. I am Graham Johnston.
Kirsty McIntosh 0:07
And I'm Kirsty McIntosh. And today is world Mental Health Day. So we've decided to dedicate an episode to it. And I would like to welcome into the podcast studio today, Julie Reekie from Crossreach, and Rob Mungall who is a volunteer with the Scottish Tech Army. Welcome to the podcast, both.
Rab Mungall 0:24
Hi
Julie Reekie 0:25
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Kirsty McIntosh 0.30
You're welcome. This actually - idea came about as a result of a conversation that I had with Rab some several weeks ago now Rab, wasn't it? We met on a, on a Donut call, which is a random introductory thing that we do in the Tech Army introducing volunteers to one another. And we had a conversation on one of those calls about how concerning it was and how difficult things were during lockdown, and the things that we were doing to kind of help make sure that we stayed healthy and well, from a mental point of view. Isn't that right, Rab?
Rab Mungall 0:58
Absolutely. And I'm really delighted that we're doing this now. And, and 13 is my lucky number. So I’m even happier to say.
Kirsty McIntosh 1:08
Fabulous. Tell us about yourself as well, Julie, what, what's your role in Crossreach?
Julie Reekie 1:13
Well, actually, I work within the counselling service. So it's - Crossreach is a fairly large social services organisation. But my remit is within the counselling services. So I deal with mental health and supporting mental health on a daily basis. And specifically, the area I'm sort of in charge of is the workplace counselling service. So that's the counselling that we provide to organisations and to the employees and to other service users.
Kirsty McIntosh 1:42
Fantastic. Thank you. And, Rob, tell us a little bit about yourself as well. How did you get to the Tech Army in the first place?
Rab Mungall 1:49
Well, very early on, I saw it on LinkedIn. And, you know, decided that sounded like a good idea. And, and, you know, I hadn't been working, I had been looking for work. But I just thought it's an opportunity to put something back. And it became clear to me quite quickly that there was a lot that needed doing in the IT world, you know, across the full spectrum of that, that would help charities, and I thought it was just a very, very great thing to get involved in.
Kirsty McIntosh 2:25
Yeah, it's been it's been a fantastic journey over the last five months. I certainly have enjoyed it, it's made a big difference to me. And actually, that's, you know, really sort of part of the topic today that in the run up to me volunteering for the Scottish Tech Army at the end of April, I run my own business, and obviously as the lockdown started at the end of March, things have gone very, very quiet. But at the same time, my, my son was stuck on another continent and not having anything to do basically just gave my overactive brain, many, many opportunities to completely get all of that out of context and out of proportion. But actually, it really did begin to have quite a detrimental effect on me. My poor husband was furloughed from his work at the same time. And he had the joy of an allotment to go and be busy with. And I was basically stuck in the house sort of by myself. And I kept volunteering for different things so for example, I volunteered to try and do things within the Red Cross, but nobody really had the need for a volunteer innovation specialist at the end of at the end of March, April time, so eventually, just like rather than saying, you know, I saw the advert on LinkedIn, and I just thought actually, I would love to help but actually, quite selfishly, I think this place might be able to help me and it really has, I've just had an amazing five months with the Tech Army. It's made a huge difference to me, and I'm very, very grateful for it.
Rab Mungall 3:45
Yeah, my experience is, I suppose I'm coming at it from a slightly different angle. The Tech Army wasn't a coping mechanism for me in the same way that, that was something else, but the the feeling of being constrained by the lockdown was a big thing for me, because my life when I'm not working is climbing, hillwalking, cycling, lots of outdoor stuff. And also lots and lots of travel overseas, you know, can independent travel overseas, and the idea of being stuck in your house for who knows how long, it was actually quite a claustrophobic feeling. And if I'm being asked to kind of get to the heart of the matter, it started bringing back feelings from em, actually 10 years ago when my mum died and my mechanism for dealing with that was to go out in the hills and stomp about all day generate endorphins and basically feel happier at the end of it. And being - having that taken away from me as it was, so I had to really, you know, think about it and work out how to actually deal with it. So you know, I was out In the mornings were possible. And that meant that okay, I could deal with being indoors in the afternoons. And but it did make me think, you know, about other people without necessarily the same situation. So I'm not sure what you think about that, Julie?
Julie Reekie 5:17
Yeah, I was just going to say, I think that's one of the things that we saw happen for a lot of people is the fact that a sudden, rapid change and traumatic change, dramatic change can evoke some feelings you were talking about, you know, feelings that you hadn't felt in 10 years. But you don't have the normal coping mechanisms that you would normally do because of the restrictions that we're facing. So you're sort of left with sort of the overwhelming feelings and not having all the normal resources you would normally do to cope with it. And which can leave you sometimes feeling in a panic position, it can generate some anxiety, depending on on, you know, each person's being different for some people, it can generate depression. So we immediately saw that there was a reaction to what happened to this and people looking around very quickly, you know, what can I do to help myself and the situation? And I think that is ongoing. I don't think it's stopped. You know, the restrictions have changed, but we're still living with it. So.
Graham Johnston 6:23
Yeah, so really, really interesting points. And what I mean, Kirsty, just back to you, if I might, so, yeah, from the introduction of the of the Tech Army, then, you know, what impact did that have on you then getting involved? Just, you know, based on what Julie said there?
Kirsty McIntosh 6:41
I think it was twofold, actually, it gave me something to do, so you know, even just a case of kind of switching your computer on in the morning, and, you know, having the opportunity to check out the Slack channels. But it also gave me the opportunity to interact with people through things like the donut calls and meeting new people and to sort of talk sort of slightly differently. I think one of the things that I think about quite a lot actually, over the last sort of five months is, you know, normally when you when you suffer a sort of traumatic event, you know, like a car accident or a death in the family or sort of something, rather, you're almost the sort of the centre of attention, you know, people have, you know, they have sympathy for you, they have empathy with you, they, you know, they want to take care of you and see how they can help you. And I think one of the things that the lockdown and the pandemic has demonstrated is everybody was in that traumatic place at the same time, so actually asking somebody to kind of sympathise with you, or give you their time because you are going through this terrible or difficult thing was a really, really hard ask. You couldn't ask people to do that, because they were actually going through the same thing themselves or something worse, or, you know, a version of it. And I think that one of those things there was actually it was very difficult to share how difficult everything was because you didn't want to impose on other people.
Rab Mungall 7:53
I agree. I think that, you know, I explain the Tech Army as being not only doing good works for charities that need it, but actually providing a self help service for geeky... IT geeks who basically, you know, had nothing to do all of a sudden, and so for me they are the twin forks of the Tech Army are those two.
Kirsty McIntosh 8:15
Julie, you actually used an expression the other day when we were speaking in anticipation of this podcast, I can't remember what it was.
Julie Reekie 8:23
No, I said that the it was a mental health initiative that you'd started.
Kirsty McIntosh 8:27
Yes. Yes. Which is something to be proud of, another thing for the Tech Army to be proud of. Yeah, I think it's really, really good.
Rab Mungall 8:34
But the thing that I would, I suppose I'm curious about and perhaps you know, Julie, you might have a view on this, but then does it not illustrate something that's actually maybe, and a little bit more fundamental, that exists all the time in society. They're talking about prescribing, cycling for obesity, but it's not actually a need to kind of view the way we treat and actually identify in the first place the people with problems. I mean, for me, I kind of quite rapidly sorted out an approach that was going to let me cope with things. And but other people who are perhaps less, you know, don't have the same capabilities, or they don't have the same facilities, you know, perhaps would find it difficult and so this idea of exercise and diet, and, you know, and even the lifestyle that people are portrayed as having to have in order to be having an enjoyable life, are those things that we should be, you know, dealing with on a macro level in order to take, you know, remove as much of the problems in mental health, from people in everyday life when we get back to the new normal?
Julie Reekie 9:46
Yeah, I think what it does is raise the profile of mental health because it's everything every bit I mean, you know, we when we go out, we start talking about mental health and mental health awareness, we talk about mental health being something that everybody has. But most of the time, we're not consciously aware of it. It's not something that we're thinking about, you know, it might be things that we, we love to do, or things that are part of our life that are maybe we've not realised that are actually contributing positively to mental health are ways that we are addressing, you know, how we feel. But when we're all sort of in the same boat of dealing with a traumatic event, or massive changes happening in our life, and it really raises the profile of the things that that affect it, and what we can do about it, especially when they're no longer easily readily available. One of the things that we've done is really focusing on self care, bringing attention to things that we can do, and coming up with ideas for people of what they can do, to take steps to maybe start to build some new routines, and work and just try new things and new ways within a limited sort of environment. Sure. So for instance, you know, you're talking about, you know, doing exercise, which we know, within the body releases endorphins, which are feel good hormones that rush through our bodies, but maybe somebody wasn't doing that prior to the lockdown. And now you're going well, how am I going to start a, you know, a regime that's going to send a lift to me out of this? You know, it suddenly feels like all the other priorities in my life? Why would I, you know, want to start, you know, a new exercise routine. But that's precisely the time that we actually need to start drawing attention to ourselves. And I was thinking to that even with care, see what you were mentioning of like, that feeling of, can I share this with other people, you know, that I'm going through this, that this is a struggle? Yeah. And actually, you know, you know, there's, there is something about feeling and sharing that you feel that way, other people that we're, you know, we're going through this together, and then, you know, suggesting or sharing ways that, you know, we might be finding that that help us. For instance, for me, there's something about connecting with feelings of awe. You know, the the great ability, I don't know about you, I mean, we were absolutely blessed with the most amazing spring, which I think for a lot of people saved us, the fact that we're suddenly being present in in nature. It's about recognising that that actually helps you and keeping it going. Yeah, though, you know, you know, exactly. So keeping that, you know, just to say, okay, that's gonna be part of my normal routine, I know that connecting with feelings of awe makes me feel better. So I'm going to become aware of that, or I'm going to have some intent that goes behind that, and keeping those going in my life.
Graham Johnston 12:54
It's a really interesting point you make about the Spring, because I, we've discussed this, I've discussed with many people that, you know, it was an unbelievably sunny, warm summer-like spring that that, you know, people weren't able to go out and do their, I would have exercise or two hours of exercise, whatever the restrictions were at that point in time, that people were taking full advantage of that and actually, it was helping it I find that, you know, and I'll talk about that in a minute in terms of - because I've got a slightly different take on what happened to me during lockdown. But the fact that we're now, you know, potentially approaching more restrictions in Scotland and potentially in other places in the UK as well. And we're about to go into winter. You know, which again, you know, sort of gets light late and gets dark early, weather's not as good. You know what I'm thinking of that, Julie, what type of coping mechanisms do we do, we think we're going to need to get us through this next phase, which is potentially going to be worse in terms of number of cases, because we can see that rising, lockdown might be less of a, of a situation that we're going to be able to find these moments of awe as you as you refer to going outside and sitting in the sun and enjoying no coffee or lunch in the garden or whatever. What do you think we can do in this next phase?
Julie Reekie 14:18
Yeah. You know, I am hearing right now that one of the things that people are feeding back is that it's actually harder. It feels harder this time. You know, when lockdown - it was a really clear restricted set of rules. You know, we know we could get outside we could we could deal with it. We didn't know how long this was going to last. But the stop start nature of it that things keep shifting, you know, I don't know, can I commit to something? Can I plan something, you know, you know, how do I manage this? You know, how long is this going to keep going? This feels a little harder to keep adjusting to things changing. Knowing that we're coming into a place, we can't even maybe get outside as much, or maybe we, you know, we can't go and socialise together as much or, you know, even if we are there's social distancing with that. So, it, I think the realising, recognising that we might be facing a more challenging time. And also recognising that, you know, there are going to be times where you you might not be okay, you know, it's okay, that you're going to have moments where this feels like too much, and giving yourself some space for that. But there's also something about space, and getting a little bit more creative. So some of the things that I might suggest probably are engaging a little bit more with our creative side. And the reason I say that is that it really is that right brain versus left brain thing, the thinking, and the worrying kind of is a catalyst. And we start to worry about things that we can't control, and it can snowball, and then the feelings get worse. If we can switch that off a bit and find some channels that are more creative for us, you're able to channel feelings into that a little bit easier. And maybe be able to, it's if you feel better, it can be sort of the body in the brain way of self healing a bit. So, for instance, for some people, it might be I think, Rab you do music. For other people, you know, it might be there's lots of online classes I've been finding of doing like life drawing, like doing life drawing, you can do things like that. There's writing classes that you can do online. For me, I think it's I've got a watercolour set, but I pull out, and I just kind of let loose with that and just and have no plan with what I'm doing. It literally is almost more abstract art. But there's something about just something being present with what I'm doing and getting out and that sort of bypasses the thinking part of my brain.
Kirsty McIntosh 17:05
Yeah, I was just gonna say it's really interesting that you say that, because it's not the same as reading a book or, or watching the television, I found that I couldn't, I couldn't watch television. Every time I every time I saw something on television, you know, people were holding hands or hugging each other or sitting next to each other in restaurants. And you're like, kind of going god this is. So last century, it just kind of fell like, you know, like, this is not kind of the real life. And actually, I actually discovered the joy of science fiction books, because it was just so completely otherworldly. I could actually just, you know, just completely, you know, go off in a completely different direction. And Rab, I was wondering whether, actually, you know, did you spend a lot of time kind of reviewing in your head about the places that you'd been or planning for your next outing, things like that, you know, sort of imagining things we're going to do when you finally get out the door.
Rab Mungall 17:51
I'll come to that in a minute. But I want to pick up on something that was said earlier, you know, the spring for a hillwalker and claimer that really good spring and being constrained in the house, it was really quite, quite frustrating. I have not been able to go in the hills during that time. However, that's a small point. Yeah, I probably didn't dwell too much in previous trips. And so I probably feel incredibly lucky to have been able to do so much of the travelling I've done in you know, especially in the last five years or so. And, you know, I've been in all sorts of exotic places. And in my head at one point, my head was I can't ever go anywhere else. Well, at least I've been to an awful lot of good places. But I was also wondering something. And, you know, picking up on what Julie said, and going back to the donut. And then I read that there was 9 million lonely people in the UK. And that's a lot of people who are lonely. And I wondered whether there was some way that say cross reach, or somehow we could start putting these people in touch with each other. So that they were they had somebody to talk to. Now obviously, there's a whole lot of confidentiality issues, etc, etc. But the donut was, as Kirsty said, and I found out too, I mean, I would say yes to practically any donut session. I was also doing online training during the first couple of months of lockdown, because it was just variety in terms of your day, because I couldn't sit and watch TV in the morning. I mean, I couldn't even sit. I only watch TV in the evening, maybe a bit in the afternoon with lunch or something. But I wasn't going to get into that. And you know, I did other stuff. And but I wonder if we could put the lonely people in touch with each other so that during the wintertime, you could actually have somebody to talk to it, you know, and randomly allocated to people that get together. I don't know. I mean, there's probably a lot of complications, but it's just a an idea that came to me because I thought donut was really successful for us. Really successful. Met a lot of great people. A lot of great conversations. And obviously, out of a conversation with Kirsty not only am I doing this, but I got involved in the White Striped Donuts. And, you know, that kind of I, I've had a very prolific songwriting time, they're not good songs, but it's something that has really, you know, been very good and obviously, being involved in the Caledonia thing was a big eh, you know, it was great as well, working with real musicians.
Julie Reekie 20:26
I would also add to that, that there's something about following your passions. And, because sometimes it can feel like, you know, I can't actually continue to do the things that I love to do, or to explore new things, because you' were talking about, you know, going and travelling the world and the stimulation of that. But I think there's an opportunity here with, with following your passions, to connect with new community, and connect with people. You know, I'm one of the examples of people who took up baking during lockdown, which I never ever, I've never done any bread baking, I've never done anything like that before. And I never in my life would have had a chance or an opportunity to do some of the baking that I've done, it sounds random. But I've completely got into this, and I got online with an Instagram group, and I've, you know, connecting with different people. And I'm posting pictures of the bread that I'm making. And I'm getting posts back and I'm all excited about this and delve into, you know, researching how sourdough helps, you know, gut health. And I mean, it branched out sort of this whole new connection community to it. So, you know, encouraging people, you know, if you are into music, you know, find some people online, who are, do I know that that, particularly with music, that there's a lot going on right now, of people sharing and collaborating virtually with one another, and then sharing that with the world that is incredibly uplifting. So, you know, those, those kinds of things are ways that you can connect in a meaningful way, with other people with your passion.
Kirsty McIntosh 22:09
I was actually just thinking here, Graham, you probably didn't have an opportunity to stop and think about what your name was, let alone play music or anything else over the last few months, have you been seriously busy during lockdown with your job? Or is it that you had some time as well?
Graham Johnston 22:24
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it's an interesting point, because, you know, lockdown for me, and I know, I've got to see, it was one of those things I sometimes felt, you know, pretty, pretty stressed out about the, you know, the amount of work that was going on, right, so you know working very early in the morning till very late at night, especially early in lockdown, because things are my job just got absolutely mad in terms of, you know, trying to stand up support mechanisms and, you know, contact routing within the business and everything else like that so you know, there's a lot of a lot of very, very long days very long hours, and right in front of the screen. So it was very, very different to, I think some people had hugely different experiences in lockdown where some people went into, you know, nothing from, you know, being out of work to having nothing, and that's where, you know, there's great examples shared here, round the tech arm and how that's stood in to, to provide that platform and the opportunity to support other people, but all sorts of have that stimulus for doing things. Whereas I guess from my side, and my experience was that work just went through the roof in terms of, you know, the amount of the long days and everything else like that, and being stuck in the house. And I think what we're, we're seeing here is that in the early days, and that this is what I've experienced, from chatting to other people, as well as that in the early days, it was a little bit of a novelty in terms of, you know, the fact that you were at home, and as you said earlier, Julie, that the rules were very clear in terms of stay at home, don't go to work, an hour outside a day to exercise, etc. But as we're kind of - where we are right now, what I'm seeing is that people who are working from home and continue to work from home, you know, we are starting to see and hear of mental health problems, because people are, you know, in one place, they're living in the same room as they're, they're working in, you know, seven days a week, that the line between work and personal life is is totally blurred. And, you know, that is leading to different elements of mental health. And I think that's something that, you know, especially going into the winter months, and the economic situation, as well as everything else, you know, is going to be something that everyone's going to need to look out for each other. For you know, employers, friends, family, everything because it is going to be something that is going to become a defining part of this period of time, I think unless we really find ways to support each other.
Rab Mungall 24:53
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right there. And I think that to them, that there seems to me to be, you know, the possibility of an intermediate solution, it's not like an instant solution. I mean, I think about people who are in very small accommodation, small flats, and so on, with really, you know, with other people, family, children, young children, and given that they don't want people travelling on the train, having the idea of there being "working from home", in quotes hubs in communities, that people could go to, to save them during the commute, but actually get them out of the house seems to me to be something that, you know, could be a feature of life going forward, because then they can meet with people socially distanced and get that in a sense of separation between work and home. And it's more practical, without it involving going on trains, and into the city. It feels to me, like we're only just at the start of the things that need to happen, both on the virtual community and in the local community. And you know, that as we change, and I think we should be, the government should be grasping that and actually moving it forward and not kind of holding on to going back to what was before as the answer. You know, let's get through it. No, let's actually just adjust and change and, and be different, be better out of it.
Julie Reekie 26:14
Yeah, you know, one of the things that I think it's not it not just the fact that we're working from home, and there's that feeling of confinement, is the fact that we're, there's an overlapping of roles that we can't necessarily separate. So you know, you've got your work persona, you've got your spouse persona, you've got, you know, you're mum, or you're dad, or whoever role that you're playing, and all of those are taking place in the exact same space. You know, I've got, I'm lucky, I've got a spare bedroom, but what I do and who I am, from different corners of my room even are massively different. So how do you keep that separate when they start to overlap, because what ends up happening is even in your thinking, it can affect your ability to concentrate, because you've got too many different roles going on in your head. And you don't ,you may not even be consciously aware of the fact that, you know, I've just had a conversation with somebody where I'm, you know, I'm talking about anxiety, and then I'm coming back into to my work role, I'm trying to do something and I'm feeling like anxious and what's going on? Why am I feeling so anxious? I think the big thing for me that I would suggest it would be really vital, is to create some sort of ritual and separation. And that might no longer mean moving between the car to the house to the going to work, but might be a ritual of leaving the room and coming back into it, changing up the space that you're sitting back into it again. I had somebody even suggest to me that I find different stones that represented these different parts of me and pick them up. So that okay, right now, this is the role that I'm in, I did that before we came on to this, I was doing a couple other things, I was in a different headspace, I literally went out of the room and came back into it. So I think that's what you're sort of talking about is okay, we need to become innovative about how we shift those spaces and move between roles, where we no longer have the same sorts of containers that we had to separate those things out.
Kirsty McIntosh 28:28
I think it's really interesting that you say that, because one of the things that - my husband and I obviously I know both working from home in different parts of it, but we're both working from home. And we've taken to going down into the main street of our local village to pick up a sandwich just to eat or just maybe once or twice a week just to kind of get out the door and actually have a kind of man-wife kind of conversation instead of a work-work conversation. You're not so much working from home as living at work. And you have to be really, really careful that you that you as you say you sort of draw the lines or somewhere down there. And I think as Graham says through the winter, that's going to be much harder because it's too miserable and it's too wet and it's too cold to be doing all these things that we've been doing through spring and the summer.
Rab Mungall 29:12
I was just going out for a walk around the block for 10 minutes as my way of doing separation. I totally agree with you, Julie and guys, you know, that's, that's important, but I just would go for a walk. I mean, even in the winter, I would do that. But not necessarily everybody, you know, wouldn't be bothered, but I think it's absolutely right.
Julie Reekie 29:31
Yeah, I think it is those little rituals, any ritual that you can build in that allows you to segue in between the different - it will act in its own way as a as a beginning ending or container space between working on one thing and moving to another. I was finding that myself, you know, I would work and I would work or you know, wouldn't even pay attention to the time I would just be working and my cue to stop working was I could hear my husband come home and the dog would go running down stairs, and then I go down and immediately I think I would I would segue right into, okay, now I'm here, it was almost a sort of where am I? What am I doing kind of a feeling to it, that there needs to be endings, it needs to be okay, this is when I stop working, what can I do from a ritual standpoint to move me, so, you know, trying to sit down, and if it's drawing or reading something, or, for me, I'm like, you Rab, that physical activity of going out and walking outside, even if they're 10 minutes, even if it's in the rain, it makes a difference in being able to move me and from one space to the next.
Kirsty McIntosh 30:42
One of the radio stations, I listened to Scala Radio has a thing at 5.30 everyday called Shut Your Laptop. And it literally takes about 10 seconds and builds up to that five thirty slot and then he says "right, shut your laptop" and then there's a beautiful piece of music, that kind of, a classical piece of music or something that kind of comes afterwards actually, on the days when I'm, you know, I'm able to listen to the radio, when I'm working, it's great it is it's kind of like, you're off the clock, just to shut your laptop and step away, if you can and as you write those routines are, are really
Julie Reekie 31:16
That's brilliant. That's a brilliant way to do it. I love that.
Graham Johnston 31:20
Yeah, one of my colleagues actually said exactly that, that's how she deals with it is just that whole actual shutting of the laptop piece, it's you know, it's great, it's as you say, it's finding your own mechanisms for having that change. Because normally it would be either the to and from your place of work or whatever. But you know, this is getting into the ritual and routine of doing it. So it's been some amazing tips, by the way, I think some great advice here as well.
Kirsty McIntosh 31:46
Yeah. And I think also, I mean, one of the drivers for doing this podcast, apart from the initial conversation was Rob and Graham, you know, you'll attest to this, as well as just about every conversation that we have on the podcast with volunteers, they state quite clearly that they were either worried about how they were going to cope with being on furlough or being redundant, or how surprised they've been by the fulfilling nature of the of the work that they're doing with the Tech Army, and actually how, how it's changed them. And I think that's one of the more sort of profound impacts of the Tech Army, it certainly done that to me and I, you know, I've actually completely rethought what I'm what I want to be in do in the future as a result of that the last five months here, and I think there's quite a, you know, good number of volunteers who've discovered things about themselves in a good way over the last few months, that perhaps will give them that little bit more resilience for what's coming next.
Rab Mungall 32:37
So I was wondering about that, you know, in terms of the Tech Army example, and, you know, extrapolate into the wider, the increasing number of unemployed people, and, and whether there is some way that we can apply the same principles to people who are newly unemployed to them, or have them find a new direction, to head off possible, you know, mental health issues among those people, because, you know, large numbers, not any more jobs, less jobs, even, you know, there is a whole melting pot of bad circumstances there. But on top of which, one of the positives I read about from lockdown. And it feels to me, like there's a learning from this is that teenage anxiety has decreased. I mean, slightly older, people's anxiety has increased, but teenage anxiety is decreased, because the basically had taken a lot of the things of the going to school, and all of that, that angst, you know, of mixing with friends and not being dressed right, and all that kind of stuff that, you know, they were happier. And it feels to me like it's a lesson in that, as well as how can you actually get the good back out of that, and apply it to the population as a whole? How can you take out the things that make people anxious that are within our control? And actually, you know, do that going forward forever? That's one for you, Julie, you know, you can come back to us next week with the answer!
Julie Reekie 34:09
(Laughter) I'll share with you what I think what we're doing now and the impact of that is that is awareness. I think that, you know, we, we tend to when we were working before it was just posting we had you know, we're constantly You know, this is the next thing we're actually stopping to think about is what I'm doing really what I want to do is what I'm doing helping, you know, what's actually causing me anxiety, you know, even just having some sort of a change, you feel the difference of it. So, being able for us to talk about this and talk about, okay, mental health, how is my mental health doing? How am I feeling about it, what are my anxieties, what's causing it, you know, I'm newly out of job. I don't know what do you know, I feel like you know, is survival mode gonna kick in? Or is there something where like, actually, this is an opportunity for me to actually I didn't like what I was doing with this or I did like this piece, I'd like to do this more, where can I go and take this, and open up opportunities from that. So it's being aware of how you're feeling about things, and being able to talk to people about it, that and even conversations like these that can generate ideas, and a sense of hope and a sense of purpose. And I think this is why I think that Scotland's Tech Army is really doing something as mental health initiative, is it giving people meaning and purpose, because what you're contributing is doing something very positive, I can speak for Crossreach for our counselling services, you know, we're sort of on the front lines of managing people's anxiety and mental health, and to not be able to deliver that because we suddenly don't have a physical facility, or a way - you're creating all those pieces for us to be able to start delivering that again, this is an enormous impact that you may not be able to see or be aware of, to get us going and get that connection happening again. So you know, this, those are the kinds of things that I think will maybe change a little bit of thinking of, okay, is this maybe an opportunity?
Kirsty McIntosh 36:24
Yeah, and I think actually, also, the Scottish Tech Army has kind of mobilised the tech talent in Scotland, you know, for good, but actually, I'm sure that the same rules apply in many other areas of specialism as well, you know, which I think is the thing is, find your find your tribe, if it's not tech, then it may be something else, you know, and that's, that would be, you know, that would be a lovely kind of message to sort of send out to people that, you know, those of us that are in the tech tribe have found it and we're together, and we've sort of become quite a coherent force. And I'm sure that it's the same if not, if it's not already happening, you know, it has the potential to happen in other areas as well, which is, which is nice.
Julie Reekie 37:06
Yeah, good thing, I think, is that, initially, your reaction is your reaction, okay? When something hits you, and it changes your life radically, and you have no control over that, you're going to feel anxious, you might feel depressed, you will feel a sense of loss, and maybe a sense of grief, or something like that, those feelings are normal and natural to feel those. But those just because we're talking about the fact that, you know, the opportunities might come from it, you might have to move through that to get to that space. So maybe this is really sort of a hope of the fact that, you know, allow yourself to move through that and have some faith that those opportunities are going to sort of present themselves, that just because you no longer have a job doesn't mean that you have don't have a meaning and purpose to give and contribute to, to everyone around you and for your own life.
Rab Mungall 37:59
So, so I in that sense, then gone back to what I said there now Is there some way that people who are newly unemployed could actually in some way, in you know, find a temporary fulfilment from helping other people, you know, and, and so should the Scottish health service or the, you know, sort of a, you know, the other agencies be almost in some way trying to get people together, and possibly even recruit more volunteers to go and talk to perhaps elderly, lonely people. And actually, the thing I was talking about before about communities and so on, actually build that, you know, actually do something positive, because we can talk for the rest of the afternoon about it, but unless an action comes out, you know, it's just been a good chat as it were.
Julie Reekie 38:49
I think that's a really good point actually, that you know, we've I've been impressed with what the Scottish Government has done I don't know if you found the https://clearyourhead.scot/ website, but it's got some fantastic links, and just simple ideas about how to look after your own mental health. But it does, like you said, Rob, it seems like there's an opportunity, as a society and as a government to think about ways that we can, you know, connect to one another and befriend one another, and, you know, make that sort of a campaign to make that easy to make that sort of a central thing that we're focusing on, is connecting and supporting one another.
Graham Johnston 39:37
Sounds like this is a definite follow up episode, right, I think, started something. Yeah. It's a great idea, Rob. And I think that, you know, with the force of the STA, and Crossreach and everybody that wants to get involved as listening to this or the wider community, it feels like there could be a movement here of something that could be created. To support. And I think it's an amazing idea, we probably are going to have to bring this episode to a close, because, but it's been an absolutely incredible discussion. And I just wanted to sort of ask you, Julie, if people have been listening to this, and you know, do feel that they want to get in touch with Crossreach, how do they go about it?
Julie Reekie 43.13
Probably the easiest way is on our website https://www.crossreach.org.uk/.
We have multiple different services in different locations they can connect with. We are working online and delivering services through distance counselling, so either phone or video, we have a platform for that.
Specifically, organisations that want to look to support their staff or some way to invest in them, they can contact me directly and I’d be happy to forward them on and that’s 0845 208 5100 and I’d be happy to sort of connect you with maybe some of the services that might be able to support you.
Another one that I highly recommend as well, just because a lot of our services are being inundated and we’re not able to always keep up with the level of support that’s needed, is using Breathing Space because it is well resourced and it is the quickest way. And www.breathingspace.scot is the website and they basically have, it’s what they call single-session counselling, but they’ve got trained counsellors supporting people sometimes just talking to somebody especially when you’re really struggling with how you’re feeling, having someone, you know it creates again that feeling of a contained space where I can tell somebody how I’m feeling and know that it’s normal and you are able to sort of move through what’s going on for you. (0800 83 85 87) So take advantage of that because there’s no fee for that. If you are sort of in a transition space, try to work with somebody on a longer term basis and get longer term support.
Kirsty McIntosh 42:16
We’ll make sure that the information’s on our website as well once the podcast is posted. Thank you Julie, that’s been amazing. And thanks also to you Rab, really appreciate your forbearance in getting this podcast on air and really interested to hear your own story too.
Rab Mungall 42:34
Well thank you both for inviting me on and lovely to meet you Julie and here’s to the movement Graham that we were talking about.
Graham Johnston 42:41
Definitely. Thank you all. An amazing conversation and the details of how to get in touch with the Scottish Tech Army will be coming up at the end of this podcast. Thanks for listening.
Kirsty McIntosh 43:13
Thank you
Julie Reekie 43:13
Thank you
Rab Mungall 43:13
Bye bye